Vault #8: Seabottom and the Hallows of Hogwarts
If you've ever done a long interview - an eight-or-twelve-hour one, per se - you know that once in awhile a detail slips into conversation as though it always belonged there; interviewee found it a relatively unsurprising fact to release, and interviewer, swimming in so many other details, accepted it as a relatively unsurprising fact as well. Or perhaps she even mistook it for one she heard before.
So, while idly flicking through the J.K. Rowling interview for the next Vault entry, I realized I had, in there, a previous working title for Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, and didn't realize it. It's not a revelation that fans who follow news closely will find surprising at all - in fact, it's been on lists of potential titles - but Sue and I have been wracking our brains trying to prove ourselves wrong and so far haven't been able to (if you can, please do): I'm pretty sure that JKR hasn't confirmed this as a former working title anywhere else. It's only been on lists of potential titles that have been intended as ruses.
At this point of the interview, we were talking about Seabottom, the fake company that caused me and everyone at Leaky much ageda in the rumor-squashing business; every now and then some registered trademarks would show up, a whole list of them, which seemed to have very likely Harry Potter titles in them - Harry Potter and the Green Flame Torch, Harry Potter and the Mudblood Revolt, etc. We speculated for a long time where these names were coming from - were they just phantom, hopeful registrations by fans, were they coming from some company set up by Warner Bros. who simply trademarked rumored titles just in case someone tried to make money off them? Were they the names of future video and board games? We figured someone "in the know" was doing it, because accurate titles appeared among them, but it still remained a much-puzzled-over mystery among the core of fans who delighted in the hunt.
I tried not to be too peeved when Jo said she and WB had been behind the company and its registrations, if only because we really should have figured it out and in retrospect it seems so obvious.
And so it seems Hallows of Hogwarts was a working title. Look at all those H's. Maybe she didn't pick it because of the same reason I almost didn't pick Harry, A History - it is really hard allow all those Hs to roll off your tongue. They kinda, just... don't. However, with practice all things are possible, and I suggest we all would have gotten used to it thanks to a ginormous media blitz before publication.
Read on!
JKR: I don't know who cooked [Seabottom] up, that would have been a lawyer somewhere.MA: There was a lot of speculation - that Seabottom is this company [unintelligible] does video games now...?
JKR: No.
MA: It was you guys?
JKR: It was just - we had to find a way to [keep some confusion out there] and it worked. I don't even think there was just one company doing it, I think we had several fronts putting up titles. [One of them was called "Stone Connect." It seems were others as well.]
MA: Just to shroud it, confuse the issue?
JKR: Yeah. As soon we knew it was going to go up on the site, we just needed to keep a little bit of confusion going for those last few hours before we got it out there.
MA: One of them was the Hallows of Hogwarts.
JKR: Yeah, well, all those titles were mine.
MA: You just sent a list -
JKR: Yeah, I sent them a list of plausible titles, including the real one. Hallows of Hogwarts for years was going to be the title of the seventh, and it was wrong, just wrong.
MA: They aren't all of Hogwarts.
JKR: Exactly. It changed completely, so Deathly Hallows was definitely the right way to go. I like the title of Deathly Hallows.
MA: Some people said it was you getting back at people who criticize your use of adverbs.
JKR: [laughs] Yeah, about 12 adverbs in the final title. I love an adverb.
Leaky reported in 2006 that the title Harry Potter and the Hallows of Hogwarts first appeared in UK patent and trademark office filings in 2003, registered by Seabottom.
Here's another list of potential titles from this Leaky post; put "Harry Potter and the" in front of each:
Heart of Ravenclaw
Deathly Hallows
Deadly Veil
Demon's Sword
Quest of the Serpent
Grey Lady
Heir of Gryffindor
Lost Sceptre
Broken Wand
Gryffindor Quest
Peverell Quest
Wand of Gryffindor
Ring of Destiny
Elder Wand
Revenge of Dumbledore
March of the Death Eaters
Return of the Dark Lord
Curse of Nagini
Last Prophecy
Hallows of Hogwarts
Mudblood Revolt
Seventh Horcrux
Wand of Grindelwald
Final Curse
Which are your favorites? I like Revenge of Dumbledore personally: I can see him all moldy, coming out of the crypt, with a finger pointed in accusation at Snape (actually, I can see Jo picturing this as a totally ridiculous option for her final story, and laughing putting down the title). I also love Ring of Destiny for the obvious Lord of the Rings nod, and Heir of Gryffindor for that most-popular and most-hackneyed fan theory, the one that circulated for seven solid years.
(p.s.: the reason I don't publish the whole interview is that, frankly, of 100 pages, nowhere near 100 pages is readable - and for me to say that, about a JKR interview, you know I mean it. In this kind of interview, the kind that sprawls out comfortably without time constraints, there's a lot of slight conversation, back-and-forth, careful nudging rather than outright demanding. It's more of of a conversation. And I know that to a fan that's enough, but it's not really a document suited for publication now, though I am happy to continue mining it for the good stuff. I may get it into readable shape one day.)
My fave was Harry Potter and the Final Curse because if you hadn't read it yet, you wouldn't have a clue who was gonna die- Harry, or Voldy. But I'm glad JK Rowling did the Deathly Hallows because it makes it seem............. umm....... awesome. heh heh
ps: omg some ppl actually think HP is stuipid! one kid i talked to had a teacher who said that they shouldn't read it! evil teacher. :P
~TnT
Wow...that's alot of titles! My favorites are "Harry Potter and the Peverell Quest" and "Harry Potter and the Heart of Ravenclaw."
Woah. I can't believe how many of the titles predicted stuff. Especially all the wands
"Elder Wand"
Well, obvious connection there
"Grindelwald's Wand"
He has the Elder Wand at one point in time
"Broken Wand"
If Harry's wand hadn't been broken, he probably wouldn't have been so obsessive about getting the hallows. Also, I loved how he used the "Deathstick" to heal his wand.
So, these titles are very facepalmy.
I wonder if these titles were developed early enough in the piece for them to reflect plot developments that were eventually discarded?
For example, all the Gryffindor references - maybe a deliberate red herring (like `The Revenge of Dumbledore' ... LOL) but I wish I knew more about the Gryffindor connection ... I felt sure she was going to make that clearer in the final book!
I, too, was convinced this was "old news" and that we had known this to be an considered title for ages... But after trawling the web for some time, I am forced to accept defeat. I suppose we deduced from the list above that Hallows of Hogwarts must have been considered...
I found the following quote from a web-chat, not long after publication:
"The two other possibilities were 'the Elder Wand' (used instead as a chapter title) and 'the Peverell Quest', which I decided against quite quickly. I think the word 'Quest' is a bit corny!"
I quite agree. By now we have a lot of quest-tales, and using the term of the genre in the title might be a bit odd? (No ill feeling towards the quest-series!) My favourite fake title is the Deadly Veil. It killed Sirius!
And, actually some of these should have been picked up as hints... The Gray Lady? Grindelwalds Wand? Hm... ;-)
I personally like the Final Curse. It has an ironic way of almost saying that Voldemort curses himself in the end, and it breathes 'finality'. I really love Revenge of Dumbledore!!! It would be awesome to see a cover drawing by Mary Grand-Pre, with Dumbledore pointing his finger outward or something, with this huge scowl on his face! OMG! Frak should TOTALLY do a drawing of this for PC Doodles!!!
That's very interesting. I'm very glad she went with Deathly Hallows, it definitly sounds better. Somehow I feel there are some fanfictions with those same names flowing out there somewhere.
i think alot of us crazy fans would have loved Heir of Gryffindor just because of what it could mean
p.s. i finally got to read harry, a History over christmas and i just have to say that it was brilliant!!!!!
I think I'd choose "Peverell Quest" if I were choosing an alternate title. But I also like "Seventh Horcrux"... seems to me I actually read that one! Wasn't that the name of the story that was getting passed around online as the "leaked" copy of DH, a few months before release? I read it after the author was interviewed ... I think on PotterCast... telling everyone that it wasn't her idea to do have it passed around in such a misleading way and that it was just fanfic!
Just to be clear, there isn't one adverb in that list of titles, or in any of the actual Harry Potter titles. So thanks to those who clarified that :)
The Seventh Horcrux would have been a bit of a.. massive spoiler, wouldn't it?
Haha, can you imagine all those theorists going crazy before Book 7 release if that were the title??
The ones I love are Heart of Ravenclaw (which really refers to the climax of the book, as does every title - plus, imagine how it would have had fans speculating, lol) and Mudblood Revolt (because it puts me in mind of an amazing fanfic I read once at MNFF - "The Sweetest Sin"). But I do agree that Deathly Hallows was the absolutely perfect title, in retrospect.
I love Peverell Quest and Seventh Horcrux. Seventh Horcrux would have been awesome because of the Nagini moment with Neville. Peverell Quest would have been mysterious and certainly fascinating.
Thanks for the awesome post Melissa!
I kind of like the ridiculous ones, just because Deathly Hallows is and has always been the only title for me; I think it suits the book. Harry Potter and the Grey Lady is good because it's just too direct- Half-Blood Prince was the closest to that and it is vague in comparison. Also the idea of a whole book about Harry and the ghost of Ravenclaw. My other favourite is Harry Potter and the Broken Wand, because I think of Harry trying to fix a wand for the entire book. What were your other possible titles for Harry, A History? Do you mind sharing? The title is perfect; it proves just from looking at the cover that a true fan penned it.
What interests me so much there is that almost every title on that list does include some element that was taken from the seventh book. Just shows again how far in advance the thing was plotted out.
HOW TIGHT WOULD HARRY POTTER AND THE FINAL CURSE BE!!!!! OMG
My favorites are
Ring of Destiny - it makes me think of a big circle of people singing disco.
Quest of the Serpent - i like the symbolism of Voldy and the snake
Revenge of Dumbledore - the same reasons Melissa does
March of the Death Eaters - I also get a march of the Penguins vibe
Final Curse - it makes me think of this big showdown that is just EPIC
I was thinking about that...Deathly is definitely an adverb, as are most of the other words in her titles.
I really like Harry Potter and the Curse of Nagini. It sound dark and mysterious. I would want to read something like that...maybe the Chinese will write that one for me ;)
Melissa I noticed that in the Vault 27 page you only list the first 6 and this is the 8th. Where's the 7th?
"March of the Death Eaters" instantly makes me think of "March of the Penguins". How fun would that book be? :)
this is so funny to me! if you google "rejected harry potter titles" you'll get all these hilarious (sometimes innapropraite) made-up titles for harry potter, and now there is a real list! I like " March of the Death Eaters" just because its funny and sounds like march of the penguins. For actual use i like "Gryffindor Quest".
Crispinus, you're totally right, and I would say that a lot when someone came at me with "AN ADVERB IN THE TITLE!" thing. People think "ly" always means adverb; sometimes it doesn't.:)
Also thanks whoever corrected the agita thing - that makes more sense, as in agitation - I just spell it how I hear it in my family. It's an often used word; imagine it in a thick Italian accent and you'll see how pleasurable it is to say.
I'm glad someone mentioned that "ageda" should be "agita."
Also, technically "Deathly" in the title of Book 7 is an adjective, not an adverb -- so sez my Oxford English Dictionary. Here it would mean "of or relating to death."
Sorry to be so nitpicky, but there you have it.
Thanks for posting this list Melissa... it's given us all a great laugh!
At the beginning, when we found out that the title was Deathly Hallows, I have to admit that I wasn't sold at first. It seemed so odd. I was intrigued, nevertheless.
I think I would have liked Return of the Dark Lord, simply because the title is so ominous. But it wouldn't make much sense, seeing as he had already returned, and we knew who he was already. (Good thoughts on the post by Madeline: Jo never used something in the title that we already knew about.)
However, I just love some of those titles. "Broken Wand?" "Ring of Destiny?" "Demon's Sword?" "Revenge of Dumbledore?" Brilliant!
And I'm so glad that she didn't use anything with Quest in it.
Radish :)
Jk Rowling is a wondeful person. I never had seen someone like her! Congratulations! I never going to forget the Harry Potter series!
I wake up early on sundays for read the Deathly Hallows, my favorites chapters are " The seven Potter", " The Dark Lord ascending", " The forest again".
This book may be fantastic!
I believe that I'll meet JK Rowling some day and say " Thank you very much for your existence. You change my life in different ways!"
Kisses ans sucess!
http://www.orkut.com.br/Main#FullProfile.aspx?pcy=0&t=0
I, personally, liked the "final curse". It creates a dramatic antecipation about the anxiously waited end. Besides, it would take all to think that it refers to the killing curse, what'd give more value to the "expelliarmus" which was so criticed during the book, and in the end this one would be the true "final curse". THE HARRY'S MARK!
Yeah, I really like "Revenge of Dumbledore" too. I also like "March of the Death Eaters." I'm a long-time marching band veteran, and I got a lot of funny images in my head with that one. ;)
I don't know why but I think I like the Grey Lady. I guess it's because in book six we already had heard of most of those words used in some titles. And if you look back Jo never has used titles that we know things about. Philosopher's Stone (you've got to read in the book to understand it,) Chamber of Secrets, Prisoner of Azkaban, Goblet of Fire, Order of the Phoenix, Half-Blood Prince. We've never been introduced to any of the capitalized words. So the Elder Wand, Grey Lady, Demon's Sword (really tacky,) Ring of Destiny, Peverell Quest, etc. But most of those aren't very -what's the word- catchy. Most tacky. So Elder Wand, Grey Lady (though it has nothing to do with anything but sounds nice,) and our beloved Deathly Hallows sound the most title worthy.
Most of the others you already know about going into the book. And has Jo ever put a person's name as a book title, such as Dumbledore!? Honestly. And I don't think "Last" or "final" would have boded too well with the fans. We would have thought Harry had died. I know I would have thought so.
Can't wait for more news!
I like the Elder Wand best.
Ya know, it took me (and if I remember the PotterCast people as well) about a week to make "Deathly Hallows" roll off the tounge. It was a strange title. Now of course, it seems natural. I rather like the "Elder Wand" as a title but I think it might have given away too much in the run-up to publication - as would have "The Seventh Horcrux". Deathly Hallows was a perfect enigma for a title...like "Half Blood Prince".
I like "The Last Prophecy" because it sounds kind of dark and moody, but it's also kind of lame because it pedantically uses the word "last" in the title of the last book. Sort of loses the mystery that "Deathly Hallows" evokes, especially since we struggled to understand what that title could mean. "Last Prophecy" would not have been nearly as mysterious.
Also, ageda is spelled agita. [sorry : D ]
Loved the book!
ooh this is just so fascinating! oh its been over a year now and its just so fun to look back and remember all the guessing and speculation and fanfics out there :) hmmmmm, out of this list i would say my favorite is the mudblood revolt. i know it wouldnt have worked for book 7 but still its very interesting. it actually couldve been a chapter title when the trio break into the minsitry and in the meantime they release a bunch of supposed mudbloods. and also, espically since today is martine luther kind day, in the harry potter world, mudbloods had the most segregation. look at the misistry and those hearings!! it was a combination of the holocaust and black segregation. it was terrifying!! *shiver* haha sorry to go on a rant. i just love hp so much *sniff* :D
The Wand of Gryffindor? Ohh! Does that mean that the Elder Wand was supposed to be Gryffindor's at some point in the story or that it was a very fake title to play with our minds? It's intriguing. Also Last Prophecy seems to refer a third prophecy, so that's interesting... But then we have Demon's Sword and Curse of Nagini, which make no sense whatsoever... So maybe they are designed to play with our minds.
It would have been hilarious if the actual titles would have been Heart of Ravenclaw, The Grey Lady or Wand of Grindelwald, we would have been all "WTF?". I suppose I like Deathly Hallows the best, it was mysterious at the time of the announcement but not as confusing as throwing in some minor element we never payed attention to. I like Peverell Quest too. March of the Death Eaters and Mudblood Revolt would have made great chapter titles, though. They sound so epic, with a hint of social revolution!
The Wand of Gryffindor? Ohh! Does that mean that the Elder Wand was supposed to be Gryffindor's at some point in the story or that it was a very fake title to play with our minds? It's intriguing. Also Last Prophecy seems to refer a third prophecy, so that's interesting... But then we have Demon's Sword and Curse of Nagini, which make no sense whatsoever... So maybe they are designed to play with our minds.
It would have been hilarious is the actual titles would have been Heart of Ravenclaw, The Grey Lady or Wand of Grindelwald, we would have been all "WTF?". I suppose I like Deathly Hallows the best, it was mysterious at the time of the announcement but not as confusing as throwing in some minor element we never payed attention to. I like Peverell Quest too. March of the Death Eaters and Mudblood Revolt would have made great chapter titles, though. They sound so epic, with a hint of social revolution!
I like Deathly Hallows, of course, but I also could see how Elder Wand or Seventh Horcrux might have been very good titles as well. Elder Wand might have been too specific - leaving Deathly Hallows as a much more general name, which is probably why it won out. But Seventh Horcrux... that would have been a great teaser! It would have just fed fire to that huge fan controversy over "is Harry a Horcrux."
I find it very interesting that the Hallows of Hogwarts were once what the story was about and then "It changed completely." If the Hallows had all been items that belonged to the founders and with an extra one or two thrown in from Slytherin, it would have been a much tighter end to the story. The sudden appearance of the Peverell stuff really seemed to come out of left field.
Much as I loved Deathly Hallows, I was disappointed by a couple of things in the story. The first is that it seemed like a shotgun fire of story elements that hadn't been seem in the first six books, while simultaneously "remembering" back to earlier events in a superficial way without tying them in firmly. And secondly, why on earth didn't Harry recall how Slughorm was getting along by borrowing peoples' houses while they were on holiday and get the heck out of that stupid tent?
What I find interesting is that the Hallows were "of Hogwarts" at some point, because in the final book none of them are. A couple of Hallows spend a long time at Hogwarts but that is just where their owners happened to be at the time.
So were the Peveralls originally going to be (some of) the founders, and was Harry originally going to a descendant of Gryffindor? that would have made the link between Harry's family and Godric's Hollow more significant because that seems to me a clue that was never really followed up with the thing it was a clue for.
Deathly Hallows is certainly my favorite, but who's to say I wouldn't have said that about whatever title that was chosen. I agree that the Seventh Horcrux, since so crucial, may be the second most fitting title.
Many do refer to the wand and the hallows, but I think the funniest of these titles just seem to be legit bit parts of the story of book seven like Broken Wand and Grey Lady. No doubt these pieces contributed to the whole and final downfall of Voldemort and Harry's survival alike, but on their own are not important enough to be titular.
I personally would have preferred Hallows of Death which is no on Jo's list. To maintain the "something" "of" "something" which I always love. With Death in the title, there is a sense of ominous fate too. Every title has an item of mystery so the only one that would have fit the bill from Jo's list is Peverall's Quest. But there is no "of" in it :)
Keep these delightful Jo cannon coming, Melissa (nicely spread out too, not too much in one go ;)
I like Seventh Horcrux, because that's what's the crucial point in the end - Harry is a horcrux (kind of), marked as Voldmort's equal, and that is his downfall.
It's a pity we won't get to read all of the interview in the near future, but it's understandable. It must be a hell of a lot of work to get it into readable shape, as you said. I hope there's going to be more of the itty bitty details, though :)
gosh, out of all of those titles I definitely think that Deathly Hallows is the best. I thought it was perfect for the book.
If I had to choose another title I would probably go with Peverell Quest since it's still about the Hallows but you don't really know that going into the book.
I also kind of like Last Prophecy and Final Curse because they both have a sense of finality to them. I can just imagine everyone's head spinning if either of those were the real titles. "Last" or "final"! Harry's gonna die! It's all over!